Philly Mosque Refuses to Bury Cop Killer
Recently in Philly, the killing of a cop, Sgt. Liczbinski, with a Chinese semi-automatic rifle, has been huge news. One of the gunmen, who was killed, is now being refused burial by a local mosque.
The leadership of the Germantown Masjid has refused to conduct funeral services for Howard Cain, the bank robber who killed Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski with a Chinese-made semi-automatic rifle.
“No, we will not bury him at Germantown Masjid,” said Tariq El Shabazz, managing director of the mosque. “We don’t want one slight scintilla hinting that we condone his behavior.”
On Sunday evening, a friend of Cain’s family asked if Cain’s burial could take place at the mosque on Germantown Avenue near Logan Street, El Shabazz said.
El Shabazz declined to conduct the service after researching Islamic law and meeting with Saadiq Abdul Jabbar, chief executive of the mosque; Imam Talib Abdullah, and others.
“We don’t tolerate that kind of behavior,” El Shabazz said. “Their actions are not from Islam. You don’t dress like a woman, you don’t rob people or transgress against them or commit murder. On all three grounds, they are dead wrong.
“We are not saying that Muslims should not bury him, or that he should not have Janaza [funeral prayers],” he added. “He is a Muslim and he has that right, but we don’t want that here.”
I mentioned this mosque just a few days ago as the one belonging to Muslims who weren’t all that interested in voting.
everyone knows what he did was absolutely wrong but how can shabazz refuse to conduct the funeral for the brother. Alot of the things we do in philly are outside of islam so is shabazz going to go around and correct all the wrong things we do. We are our own worst enemy. tell shabazz to stop grandstanding for the media and bury the brother. right or wrong he should not refuse to bury the brother.
Yeah that seems messed up. i wonder what kind of research they did. My understanding that at least the janaza was fard kifaya. MAybe they are arguing that everything else (like the burial) is no ones obligation.
From a practical perspective, he has a point:
“We don’t want one slight scintilla hinting that we condone his behavior.” Ammo for Islamophobes.
Anything you do is ammo for Islamophobes. If I breathe they’ll complain Mozlamics are sucking all the oxygen. Can’t worry about them. I personally think this is ridiculous. Bury the man and let God deal with him.
no way should give the janazah service to a cop killer, no way, it’s good for reputation of Muslims, once you done something good for a change. I got a very very strict law and order policy.
OK…hypothetical question:
Say OBL is killed/executed/whatever in the US. Does he get a janazah? Which mosque or imam is going to agree to do it?
For me its connected to some ideas near the center of what it means to be Ahl al Sunnah wal Jamaat (and possibly some things emphasized a bit more by Hanafis) especially contrasted against the Khawarij of history. The idea is that deeds are not part of iman. So as long as a person believes, even if they commit grave sins, they are still Muslims. They are still your brother/sister in iman. And whatever rights/obligations exists between Muslims just because they are Muslim are still there. We don’t excommunicate them. We don’t call them kaffirs. We give them salaams. We visit them when they are sick. and pray for them when they die.
It has been narrated from Hazrat Ali May Allah be pleased with himthat the Holy Prophet Peace & Blessings Be Upon Himsaid, “Commonly in Islam there are six rights of a Muslim upon a Muslim: when he meets him he should give him salaam; when he invites him (to a meal) he should accept it; when he sneezes he should bless him; when he falls ill he should visit him; when he dies he should accompany his funeral and he should prefer for him that which he prefers for himself.”
In terms of your OBL example, here’s my understanding of how the lines get drawn. If you start off Muslim but then develop a drinking problem and say “I know drinking is wrong, but I can’t help myself” then you are still Muslim. If you say “Drinking is halal” then you are advocating a different religion and step outside the pale. If you say “I know I should get up and pray but am really really lazy” you are still Muslim but if you say “Actually, salat is not a requirement” then you are advocating a different religion and have stepped outside the pale. (also the obligatoriness of salat and the prohibition on alcohol are pretty clearly in the Quran)
So in the case of OBL the issue is whether his interpretations are extreme enough to take him out of Islam.
This is mostly a political move (and an understandable one). Had they performed his janazah, it would have looked like they approved of his action. I think they did the right thing. They are not saying he should not be buried. He is saying that they don’t have to be the ones to do it.
However, this incident has exposed the criminal subculture in the Muslim community (particularly in Philly) that needs to be cleaned up
The rapper Freeway, a Muslim from Philly, was in jail.
Torn between Islam and cash the Philly rapper chose both.
http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/freeway/articles/story/5937525/freeway_of_love
Hmm. I see the old problem with Cain and burial continue!
Recently a kid here tragically took his own life and some of the maulvis refused to pray for his soul. I don’t know whether that is technically correct or not , but it did come across as inhumane.
“Their actions are not from Islam. You don’t dress like a woman, you don’t rob people or transgress against them or commit murder. On all three grounds, they are dead wrong”
Uhhhh….. what does cross-dressing have to do with any of this??? Why is it the equal of robbing and murder?
There was a cross-dressing bank robber in the news recently.
He got busted, I think, when the teller, instead of handing him the money, just started yelling at him. He fled the scene.
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Uhhhh….. what does cross-dressing have to do with any of this??? Why is it the equal of robbing and murder?
Two of the robbers were wearing chadors/burkas. What are the opinions/law on dressing as women to commit crimes?
I think under orthodox Islam, it is haram — impermissible — to dress up as women, not just to commit crimes, but for any purpose. Orthodox Islam also bans gold and silk because these things are considered effeminate. Obviously, breaking the law, theft, etc, is also haram.
Ali
So I guess the question becomes: does doing something that is haram disqualify you from a Muslim burial? I suspect that there’s a variance of opinion in any religion including Islam.
This is why this is such a big issue in the Muslim community these days. Most people concur that the crime was haram and that the individual is probably consigned to hell, but burying Muslims in an Islamic burial is a “fard kafiyah.” (A religious obligation that falls on Muslims collectively). This means that “the Muslim community” *has* to give the guy a burial. Some Muslims believe that this means that the Germantown mosque should have held the guy’s burial even if they didn’t like him. Others believe that the Germantown refusal doesn’t preclude other Muslims from burying the guy in order to fulfill the fard kafiyah.
I think under orthodox Islam, it is haram — impermissible — to dress up as women, not just to commit crimes, but for any purpose.
These are the issues which makes Islam look like a primitive voodoo religion to outsiders. You might as well be handlin snakes and speakin in tongues at that point.
I saw the Naqshbandis were providing remedies and spells for the evil eye. And then there is the whole Jinn possession business.
It is quite pathetic how many people indulge themselves in this junk religion.
The Djiin, u think it’s funny and something to mock? The djiin is very smart, clever, dangerous also and me, i got direct experience with djiin.
Yeah, me too. I got a great deal on a lamp which I rub three times and then she pops out in skimpy genii pants and cool tube top. I asked for an Wii and some games and hokus pokus allakazaam!
Oh wait, that was my IMAGINATION!
I really need to get a life.
Get the djiin inside ure head, oh no, oh no.
You won’t wanna leave ure bed, oh no, oh no.
The jinn’s voice leaves nothing unsaid, yeah yeah yeah,
Cos the Djiin talks so much she just wants u dead, yeah yeah
She’s made of fire, but her heart is as cold as lead, yeah yeah,
Get that djiin out of me head, yeah, yeah.
The djiin is like a bauble of fire,
But when she whispers she’s a liar
She offers u stuff, but just refuse,
cos if you listen, u will lose
feel the djiin crawl over ure skin
taste the pleasure of her sin
on ure knees and slowly give in, yeah, yeah, yeah,
a kiss of fire, but you can’t win. oh no, oh no,
See a smile like the rising moon,
See the flames light up ure room
Slowly submit to ure doom
feel the flames burning in ure head, yeah, yeah,
and know ure djiin wants you dead, yeah, yeah,
now you finally know ure shame,
cut ure wrists and feel ure pain, yeah, yeah,
the djiin’s voice leaves nothing unsaid, nothing unsaid, nothing unsaid
Muslims MUST believe in the jiin, this is Islam, u must, and jadoo is in the Qu’ran, everyone knows, also there is djiin in america, don’t mock what Muslims think and think it’s ignorant cos on the subject of Djiin, Muslims no more than YOU.
And Muslims told me in the hospital also that part me of problem was I got attacked by a djiin in Medina. But me and me friend, we think it was cos of other stuff, but djiin is not so easily dismissed also. Like I told, doctors said it was djiin and I was not to blame also for me problems. And i think i was not to blame also, but another, i needed to get real help, not just advise about djiin maybe.
Evil eye, this is eyan, what is that? This is like if i get highlights in me hair and it looks dead nice and another girl can’t afford she can make ayan, ayan- then maybe i get sick or whatever, like that. Another, way out is if this girl says just “Mashallah”, no ayan can come. Another, you can push out ure palm three times sharp, this also will help. Put this on ure house, also of course maybe, it’s like that. All of this i think American Muslims got no idea cos don’t know Islam very well maybe.
APG. You can move to Cairo and get a genie girlfriend.
http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2006/10/10/obedient-genie-wives-available-in-cairo/
Also, I don’t think any of the credal scholars consider it a requirement that to be a Muslim you have to believe in the jinn.
BUt i don’t blieve in all this stuff now more, i believe only in RAD FEM, but if you are Muslim, you have to believe in it of course
Ali, what is one way to look at it, I just telling that RAD FEM taught me it’s about repression and stuff, cos when you got the djiin then it’s like a sort of pass card to do what you want and if you live in crowded environment, feel trapped, can’t express urselef, then the djiin is a kind of way to say, “No matter what i do or say when i freak out, it’s not me, it’s me djiin.” So lots of girls don’t mind to accept that they got a djiin in their heads and it happened in the camp also, we got seven girls got djiin and I was one of the first.
Another kind of djiin is like this:
1) if you love another girl, maybe it’s djiin trick you
2) Voice in head saying all stuff- it’s a djiin also
3) if you hate islam, fight with family etc, maybe it’s a djiin.
But me and about djiin, maybe it’s 50-50, even in America people believe in ghosts, paltergeists, spirits, so cos I am curious about djiin this is not to say I am accepting Islam, no, but Muslims got to accept this, like i told, aein, this is in Islam and djiin is made of fire, same like iblis, djiin have a set functuion also, issues of free will also in Islam and for djiin are complex. Jadoo and Djiin, it’s essential beliefs of Islam and not to believe in Jadoo and in Djiin, this is one more sign that American Muslims are totally disconnect from Muslim mainstream ideas and Islamic culture.
APG.
I want you to put as many of your disparate comments into one comment, whenever possible.
there’s nothing desperate in me comments cos me problems are nothing to do with Djiin, me problems is another and I got support, advice and proper care to deal with them and I never letting things get on top of me like that again.
Please look up the word disparate.
so djiin is a border of mental illness, repression, poor quality of life for girls, and also, like we see even in America, supernatural, all of it is framed within the Islamic context. So djiin is of real interest to feminists, actually.